I really appreciate comments and have received some great questions. I have been trying to write some follow-up posts for a while, but just have not had the time. Tomorrow while Thunder and Storm are out running a test, I will be staying home with Freighter. I plan to spend some time drafting follow-up posts and generally updating my blog. This is a post that I had partially drafted for a few weeks. I just never had time to finish it so here it is now.
The beginning of May, I wrote about Freighter “chasing butterflies”. That was my description of his retrieving which was more like…run super fast to the bumper…pick it up…and then run all around the field. Ah puppies!
Hsin-Yi of Honey the Great Dane wanted to know:
what do you do when Freighter is “chasing butterflies” and he drops the bumper? or does he always keep in his mouth? It would be great if he still held onto it come what may and eventually returned to you because at least you wouldn’t have to worry about going to find it/pick it up. My biggest problem with Honey retrieving things is that if she gets distracted, she will just open your mouth and drop it. On the other hand, to be fair, she is not a “retriever breed”!
Great questions. Yes, having a retriever breed helps because you hope the urge or drive to retrieve is part of the dog’s genetics. But the puppy isn’t just born with all of the skills a retriever needs. They have to be helped to get there.
With Thunder and Storm, we did not work with a trainer when they were very young. In fact, we had no thought to run hunt tests until Thunder was 16 months old. He had basic gun dog training which was great because it involved flushing birds in the field. However, that was in preparation for hunting and not so much for hunt testing. He missed out learning some basic skills when he was young which is the best time to teach them. To this day, we still work with him on his holding the birds. It is something that has always been an issue for him at tests and I think it is partly because he was not put through formal retriever basics as a puppy.
We are doing things a bit differently with Freighter. Our training so far has mostly been to get him wild to retrieve. Right now, as long as he is quick to the bumper, we are not putting pressure on him about the return. However, shortly that will change when he goes for more formal training.
During formal training, in addition to “here” which he is already working on, Freighter will also learn “fetch” and “hold”. These are all taught almost as obedience, separate from the retrieve at first and then eventually put together with the retrieve.
Toward the end of this month, we will be sending Freighter to a professional trainer to learn these skills. Once he is through the retriever basics, hopefully he will be less inclined to chase butterflies. 🙂 Because we hope to run him in hunt tests, we will be following more of a set training program where “fetch”, “hold” and “here” are just the beginning of the skills he will learn.
I am no trainer, but for Honey or any dog wanting to learn to hang on to the object that they are asked to retrieve, I don’t see why you could not try to teach a “hold” command. Start out with the dog by your side and tech “hold” separate before putting it with the retrieve. Reward when the dog holds whatever you have asked it to hold, a toy, a bumper, whatever. Then once that is solid, put it with the retrieve, but keep it short. Lengthen it little by little. Even at a retriever test, it is not uncommon to hear handlers telling their young dogs to “hold”, “hold’, “hold” on the return because the dog knows the command. The key is to start out short and keep it positive. (This is not exactly how Freighter will learn it, because his training will involve much more, but for fun retrieves it is one way to teach it.)
If anyone has tips for those wanting to teach a “hold” command, or tries it with their dog, I’d love to hear how about it. Have a nice weekend!
Training does sound like the younger you start the better. I love your tip on retrieving and holding and I just may try this with Fred as he will run and get the ball, then just look at you and run away! “sigh” Have a great weekend!
This is so interesting! We adopted Pip when he was older and he was pretty set in his ways – not that he could ever done all the cool things that your dogs do. He will fetch things, but he always drops the object almost immediately.
He sure does look like a big dog. Geez it seems just like a few days ago he was with his litter mates. Time just zooms by.
Blessings,
Goose
The hold command, this is an interesting thought. We were working with Finn saying “carry” whenever she had something in her mouth and now that she’s a bit older, she has no problem with holding/carrying. We think she likes to show off whatever it is she has in her mouth!
I love hearing how you work on training the dogs, it seems like Freighter is off to a great start. I know how hard it is working with an older dog who is somewhat set in her ways. 😉
I love to watch Freighter retrieve with all his enthusiasm, it always reminds me how my pups were always ready to just jump in and go. He’s having so much fun 🙂
I’m learning more and more each day! Maybe one of these I will be able to watch one of them perform!
Daisy holds a little too well – she won’t let go or return with the object!
Hi Guys,
I’m so impressed with how well Freighter is doing in learning to retrieve 🙂 I’m so not a Retriever – I’ll bring a ball back a few times, if I feel like it, but then I’m usually done – if you’d like some Herding done though, give me a call 🙂
Have a fun weekend,
Your pal Snoopy 🙂
Hi!
We finally are back in the swing of things and catching up! Freighter is doing a great job and oh my gosh he is growing up so quickly! Great post!
God Bless You!
The Collies and chuck 🙂
Very interesting post. We like learning about the Brown Dawgs skills.
Bella and DiDi
You have such great and interesting info. I love learning about you both and can’t wait for more.
Loveys Sasha
Great post and follow-up. We loved learning even more about how you train the dogs so well! We have found the younger we start with training, the better ours do. That and being very consistent!
Hope you guys had a great weekend! Enjoy the week 🙂
Oh, thanks so much for answering my question! 😛 It was really interesting reading. I hope you’ll be doing a post about how Freighter learns those Fetch & Hold commands as formal Obedience commands coz I’d love to know the sequence of steps in how they teach it!
Yes, I have taught Honey to “Hold” and she will pick up & hold items that I indicate or give to her – but never for very long. It is always a struggle. I think she just fundamentally doesn’t like holding things in her mouth, especially if she is aware of it (she carries her stuffies around happily when people come to the door – but that’s part of her excitement – once she calms down, she drops it) – and she refuses to hold certain textures (this is one place I really failed in my training & socialisation when she was young!) – so mainly only “soft” things or wood.
I also find that she has trouble “multi-tasking” – ie. she has a fairly solid Hold when she is Sitting – and I have taught her a formal retrieve – in the sense that she’ll get something, bring it back and sit & “present” it to me…but I have trouble getting her to walk next to me and hold the item in her mouth at the same time. Or put something in her mouth and then ask her to walk towards me. She always drops it, before coming towards me. It’s actually the same action as her retrieving something but I think when she comes back holding it as part of the retrieve, it’s a “game” and she isn’t aware she’s doing it, if you know what I mean. But if I tell her “Hold”, give her an item in her mouth – and then step back and call her towards me – she’ll drop the item before coming towards me. Or even if I try to get her to move from Sitting to Standing, with the item still in her mouth. It’s like once she hears another command, she forgets to keep holding!! 🙄
That’s why I asked you the question about whether Freighter will keep hold of the thing in his mouth. I have friends’ dogs who will and it makes it so much easier – coz you can give them several other directions and they’ll still keep holding the thing – like the default, baseline behaviour. Whereas with Honey, if it’s not the “main” behaviour that you’re asking from her – she’ll instantly forget about it. I’m still working on the simplest thing of getting her to hold something and walk next to me! I know she can do it coz she does it by herself sometimes – walking around with a stuffie – so she CAN hold things and walk! But it’s getting her to do it when she is aware of it! 😉
That’s why I think it really helps to have a “retriever” breed coz I think the drive to keep hold of the thing in their mouth overrides everything else. You still have to work on them bringing it back to you, etc – but I think that’s a separate issue to them actually keeping hold of the item in their mouth.
Gosh – sorry for rambling on so long! 😛
Hsin-Yi
I agree Hsin-Yi that a lot of what you would like Honey to do would be easier if you had a retriever breed. 🙂 Some of what you describe is quite complex for a dog. We work on having the dog hold and then doing something else, say heeling next to us, watching marks fall, or giving other commands. But some of that is not done until they are well advanced in their retriever training. Even then some of the ability to multitask as you describe it can be easier to “train” depending on the dog’s ancestors. The ability to learn those tasks can in fact be genetic. You can’t teach drive and that is something we hope has been bred into our retrievers. (along with brains). Freighter is quick to the bumper, and will hold for the most part and that is mostly genetic because we have not started actual retriever training yet. The other thing that a retriever should be able to do is to take on unpleasant conditions to make the retrieve, especially if that has been reinforced with training. That can be something difficult to train in a non-retriever breed, (this is where drive or birdiness helps). And definitely we have to work on the dog bringing the thing back, especially Chessies it seems. They like to mess around…lol.
Hmm…I just posted a long comment and I think it might have gone into your Spam folder again! 😉