Freighter is off to begin his retriever training with a professional trainer. Many of you have asked what is involved with this kind of training. I have attempted to explain it, but I am no expert and it can be a complex subject. Unfortunately this post turned out kind of long even though I tried to pare it down. 🙂
If you are a regular reader you know that we have spent the last few months building Freighter’s enthusiasm to retrieve without correction or pressure. Now it is time to formalize his retrieving including “fetch” and “hold”. This will be done through a process called “force-fetching”, “force breaking”, or ” the trained retrieve”. I imagine some of the positive only trainers reading this are thinking to themselves: “Yikes! How can anything that has force in its name be good for the retriever?”. Force-fetch may be one of the most misunderstood and under valued training processes by people unfamiliar with retriever training. So what is force-fetch and why is it important?
Two well known retriever trainers, John and Amy Dalh, authors of the book, “The 10 Minute Retriever“, have described it this way:
Force-fetching is the process of making a dog absolutely reliable in its bird/dummy handling and delivery. It converts retrieving from a matter of play to a matter of obedience. It provides a foundation of confidence for advanced training–no matter how confusing or stressful a situation, the dog knows that going when sent is the right thing to do. This confidence is the basis of greater style and intensity than is possible in any play-retrieve.
Although many owners are uncomfortable applying systematic direct pressure (i.e. pain) to their dogs, it is far more humane to force-fetch, and yields infinitely better results, than to situationally reprimand a dog that lacks the foundation to understand clearly what its trainer desires.
First published in The Retriever Journal, February/March 1998
In other words it is a training process, using some form of compulsion, to make the dog go and pick up an object in its mouth, carry it, and then deliver it to hand. But if the dog naturally retrieves why the need for force-fetch?
A Primer On Force-Breaking is an article written by another retriever trainer author, James B. Spencer. This is an excellent article that goes over the basics of force-fetching, including what is involved, the reasons to do it, and a brief history. Spencer writes the reasons for force-fetching are as follows:
Most experienced retriever trainers routinely force-break their dogs for several reasons. First, it insures reliable delivery to hand. The non-force-broken retriever often drops birds rather than delivering them. This is especially aggravating in water work, where the dog drops the bird on the shoreline to shake water from his coat. A force-broken retriever normally won’t drop birds, but even when he does, he’ll pick them up again on the command Fetch.
In multiple marks, reliable delivery to hand improves the dog’s marking by smoothing the between-bird transition. The force-broken dog delivers each bird at heel and then focuses on the next bird to be retrieved. The non-force-broken dog may play various games with the bird, tossing it up, dropping and picking it up, lunging after it and so on. These not only waste time, but they also dim the dog’s memory of the birds remaining to be retrieved.
I have highlighted two reasons that are important to us. Long time readers to this blog might remember that I mentioned that Thunder did not start formal retriever training until he was almost 17 months old. This was because we did not know anything about hunt tests. He was going to be a hunting dog, and as such may not have needed formal force-fetch. However, once we decided to play the retriever games, I can tell you that he had many of the problems that Spencer writes about in his article. He would go out and do a very difficult retrieve and then blow it by not bringing the bird directly back to his handler. Even though he was eventually force-fetched the problems he had early on before force-fetch still rear their ugly heads at tests now and again, ie dropping birds in the water and going around the back of his handler before coming to heel to deliver the bird to hand. We wish we had done force-fetch when he was younger. Heck, we wish we knew then what we know now about training.
Not every dog playing retriever games is force fetched and I don’t want to suggest that they are, (a majority probably, but not all). Some people do not feel they need it, which is their choice. You can google “force fetch” and no doubt read all kinds of horror stories about brutal methods used. Maybe some trainers use those methods, but the ones (plural) we have known do not. There are various methods and as any good trainer will tell you, no one method or process will be beneficial to every dog. I will not lie and say it doesn’t include some discomfort for the dog, but when Freighter is finished with the process, I expect him to be the same happy-go-lucky puppy. However, he will understand that fetching is his “job”, including holding the bumper all the way back to his handler, coming directly to heel, and delivering to hand. But force-fetch is much more than fetch and hold. The things he learns now will provide the base for learning more advanced retriever skills later. Force-fetch is about introducing the dog to control so that eventually we hope he will retrieve the things we want, in the order we want, and bring them back in the manner we want.
Some readers have asked how long Freighter will be with the trainer. Right now he is there for at least a month because that is how long it will take to complete force fetch, (could be longer, could be shorter). Darrin, our trainer, does his force fetch as a very gradual process. Many people do their own force fetch, but we would rather have the professional trainer do it because if done incorrectly you can set your training behind when you have to redo parts of it and we really want Freighter to have a solid force-fetch. Some people do it a bit younger than 7 months; however, Darrin has worked with Freighter since he was small and we left it up to him when he felt that he was mature enough. We are in no real hurry because we hope Freighter will have a long retrieving career. In all likelihood Freighter will probably stay longer than a month to get some training beyond force fetch, but we will decide that toward the end of the 30 days. Of course we miss him, but we plan to be at Darrin’s training this weekend, (provided the weather cooperates), and will hear about his first week. 🙂
Wishing you all the best sweet Freighter we know you are going to be a great student! hugs and nose kisses
Thanks Chancy and Mumsy. 🙂
I won’t google force fetch because you know how I am. LOL I can tell whoever worked with Delilah before either didn’t teach her force fetch or they failed. She will retrieve but then she brings whatever it is to either the bank of the water or in front of you and drops it. Lucky for her we are not entering her in any events that will require correct retrieving skills. 🙂
I hope Darrin is taking lots of pictures for us and gives you a good account of what is going on so you can share.
He will probably be your best retriever yet!
I am guessing she wasn’t force-fetched. As I said, unless you are doing tests, it is not always necessary. Many a good hunting dog never goes through it. Darrin taking pictures. lol thanks for the laugh…no way he is a trainer not a picture taker. I am just glad he lets me take pictures. 🙂
I have no doubt you will be an excellent student. I would even dare to say the star of the class. Enjoy.
Blessings,
Goose
Not sure about the star since his sis is there too. 😉
Oh I cant wait to see how he does and to see where he ends up since ive followed since you got him. This has to be so excited, its worth the missing him part. He is going to be a champion!!
We hope he does well in training…that is for sure. 🙂
Rooo I’m wishing Freighter all the best in his training. I love a good game of fetch, but I’m not sure I could give up shaking my toy to bits for a perfect fetch performance *waggy tail*
the brown dawgs are now demanding a floating kong fetch toy like yours!
The forced retrieve was always controversial in the obedience world, too. I think each trainer needs to decide for themselves what makes sense for them and their training program. Good luck, Freighter! Catch on quick and come home soon, boy!
I did not realize that they did forced retrieves for obedience, but now that you say it, it makes sense that it might be needed.
When I was training my first dog, it was used when starting Open. I don’t know if many folks do it anymore. Mostly because obedience numbers have dropped off so drastically!
Good luck with your training Freighter!
Bella and DiDi
Thank you Bella and DiDi.
Very informative post! Hope his training goes well!
I hope so too.
You did a great job explaining, great post! Good luck with the trainer Freighter.
Thank you!
Best of luck! I know you’ll be so proud when he ‘graduates’!! It has been amazing watching him grow and I’m excited to hear about his progress! Isn’t’ it just amazing what dogs can learn for us?
Yes it is amazing and I think that is why we enjoy doing it. When you see the dog have the “light bulb” moment it is wonderful.
Wow! This is a lot to take in! It surely is a lot different than just having a dog to love and play with. I do understand though that you have “working dogs” and I certainly wish you the best of luck with Freighter! It is all so interesting, but still quite beyond me. I am sure enjoying learning it though! Still wish I could see it in real life!
Well we started with a dog to love and play with and then some how got hooked on testing. Not quite sure how that happened…lol. But it is wonderful to watch the dogs work and maybe that is the lure?
Great post!
Titan is my first force-fetched dog and I am pretty excited about it. I can’t wait to work with him and who knows maybe I will actually get to go on a hunt with him this year 😉
A hunt, really? You are brave. 🙂 What about hunt test?
Absolutely will be trying those too but I have always wanted to go out and do the real thing with one of my dogs; gun, aim, shoot and hopefully hit the bird and then watch my dog retrieve it, we shall see. But definitely I would like to title him with at least a JH
Good luck with the hunting. I hope you get to try it.
Hey Freighter, Jet here. Hi Miss Linda.
Wow, dude, you’re going to some serious school! Miss Linda, thank you for explaining so many complicated ideas to us. Since we are lounge around the house K9s, training fascinates us.
You are welcome. This is all relatively new to me too, but I have learned a lot.
I’ve heard a lot of back and forth about the forced retrieve (and I’m certain you have too!), so really, I’m just going to wish Freighter a happy training camp time!
Thanks!
Great informational post! I have never heard of forced-fetch training. I guess if you are going to have a hunting dog it sounds like the way to go. I’m sure each individual has their own preference and what works for them. I bet you can’t wait until Freighter graduates! I hope you get to see him this weekend. 🙂
Best of luck on Freighter’s training! Thanks for explaining what goes on!
I have never heard of forced-fetch training – great post and great photos, as always!
Hi Y’all,
If you haven’t figured it out yet, I’m playin’ catch up for fallin’ a bit behind in reading.
Y’all come by now,
Hawk aka BrownDog
SO behind on the blogs since I have not been posting much. Great coverage and explanation of force fetch, brought up some points that will be helpful in explaining to others. It does indeed help build confidence which is something we often forget, but when it doubt they at least know how to fetch and hold… marking seems to be the more challenging part of it all. At least for wyatt. The more we work him the more he puts the retrieve all together though, at the rivers he is even getting better about not even shaking when he comes in so that the stick never leaves his mouth. But now when it does he picks it right back up. Chris will never test with him but having a reliable retrieve is big when you are doing water hunting too. And it really is the basis for SO much with these guys. I force fetch trained wyatt, and for the most part he picked it up very quickly….which was no surprise. My boss started Luna but I ended up finishing her too, it is probably my least favorite thing to train around here, but on the same hand it really forces me to get creative sometimes as I work with various dogs. The “obedience” work I do can get kinda boring as it’s pretty straight forward, but helping the dogs make the fetching connections really comes down to getting creative with thought patters, so in that way I do like it. It helps too when I get to force fetch a dog that is actually a retriever breed, tends to go much more smoothly. So many of the dogs I do are actually pointers, which proves to be pretty interesting.
In anycase I shall shuddup, I have no doubt freighter will do well, glad you all found a trainer near you you trust, makes it a bit easier to leave them for training. I shall try and stay more up to date lol. Curiosity had me read and comment on this one of course 😉
Anna
http://www.akginspiration.com
I had to fish your comment out of spam. That darn spam filter always seems to know when I am not around to do it and then sticks regular commenters in spam. Look if I approved one comment, there is no reason why you should ever make spam again! Ugg. Anyway, I have actually seen our trainer work FF with some young dogs (not ours). He has done so many, he is quite confident and efficient when he does it and there was a good bit of praise too, (which I think people overlook when criticizing the process). As for marking, it is nice when they are natural markers, but you can train that too. Marking drills are one way and also training the dog to run a nice long straight line to the mark. That way you just have to point them. We did not do enough of that kind of training with our dogs when they were younger and it has hampered them for higher level tests. Of course when hunting our dogs are excellent markers, (and you don’t shoot a duck 100 yards out…lol). I bet you will find Wyatt has excellent marking and memory when it comes to hunting.
Thank you Brown Dawgs for sharing your knowledge and research with us. 🙂 We learn a whole lot about dog training from you. :} Many hugs and kisses 🙂 <3