Yesterday I wrote about the pitfall of trying too hard to always end a training session on a “positive note”. You can read that post here.
Today I want to share how I dealt with a certain brown dawg who decided to ignore me. This was not during a formal training session, but every time you tell your dog to do something, be prepared that he may decide to ignore you. When that happens I try to stop and deal with it at the moment it happens. It may be a quick retraining or it may be some form of discipline.
Gasp! You read that right. The brown dawgs actually are disciplined when they are disobedient. I am not talking about taking a stick and beating them, but there are consequences to their actions. Just as they earn praise when they do something right, they earn discipline when they do not.
Yesterday I used the example of a dog that decided to take off when being exercised off lead. Our dogs are hunting dogs and often work off lead with a lot of very tempting distractions. From the time they were pups, we worked on their recall so it is now very reliable. But we do not rely on their good training alone. We also use an ecollar to reinforce their recall. Should they ignore a recall command, they would get a collar correction although it happens very rarely.
Ecollars have been demonized by modern trainers but in reality they are a valuable training tool, just like any other training tool. I do not understand modern trainers who shun tried and true training tools that could help with a training issue. They would rather live for years with a problem than correct it. As with any tool, it may be necessary to seek a trainer to teach you how to use it correctly, but once you and your dog have been trained in the proper use, it can be very valuable. If you see a picture of our dogs out hunting, training or walking off lead, you will usually see them wearing their ecollar.
Ending Training On A Positive Note – Not Always
But this post isn’t really about ecollars and recall. This post is about another issue I was having with Freighter and I how I quickly solved it.
Many days (depending on weather) the dogs spend time in their outdoor kennels. Freighter likes his kennel except when he decides he wants more time in the yard. On those days he can find all kinds of things to do instead of obeying my command to “kennel”.
This usually happened on a day after a weekend of fun or when there is something more interesting in the yard, like critter smells or snow.
I tried many different ways to get him in his kennel. My normal routine is to put the dogs in their kennels and then give them a small treat before I leave. But the promise of a treat alone was not working. I eventually tried going inside and taking a toy to lure him inside. This worked. Freighter got into the kennel and to end on a positive note, Freighter got his treat. Unfortunately, eventually this did not always work either.
Positive training methods suggest if I repeated this enough, Freighter would eventually get it. But by playing his game, am I not teaching him to mess around and in the end he gets what he wants?
Then the light bulb went on. What am I doing? These dogs know full well what the command “kennel” means. I am the human why am I letting a dog rule me? There is no way that I am going to jump through hoops to get this dog to obey a very simple command.
The next day I went out with a different plan.
I let Freighter have his time to mess around in the yard and do his business and then I said “kennel”. Nothing. OK fine. I got him in his kennel. I may have raised my voice slightly. He went inside expecting a treat. I held one up and told him that he lost his treat for today and that the next time I tell him “kennel”, he better do it or no treat.
Storm was in her kennel already and she got her treat and then I left them. No ending on a positive note where Freighter was concerned.
The very next day was a repeat of the day before. Freighter messed around-no treat.
On the third day, I guess he figured out that I meant business. On the third day I said “kennel”. He ran to his kennel and plunked his but down and waited for his treat which I happily gave him along with praise. We most definitely ended on a positive note.
And that was that. He happily goes into his crate and outside kennel when I tell him to. I do not always give a treat. Sometimes it is just praise. Sometimes I don’t have a treat handy.
I should say that Freighter is not fearful of his kennel. If he were, I might alter my method slightly but not much (maybe dealing with a fearful dog is a topic for another day). My point is that when you have a training issue, sometimes you have to think outside the popular training methods and figure out what works for your dog. I think too many trainers tend to buy into one method of training and never waver even though their dog’s behavior is not improving.
So how about you? Have you ever ended your training on a less than positive note? What did you do to move training forward?
I mentioned in yesterday’s post that Storm tried this game too. She is funny about stalling. I think I will post pictures of what she does to stall tomorrow on the Thursday Barks And Bytes hop. Our Thursday hop is open to all bloggers, why not join us? It is fun.
Think I learnt something today what’s very important…. to feel like the winner because Easy does what I say after 87 treats and 1845 calls is wrong… he knows what I want and he should do it without a truckload of treats too :o)
I’m going to have to try that with Preacher and Gambler, I always give them a treat to lure them into their crates in the house. Now they stand in the living room when they know it’s kennel time.
That sure did work. I am a little surprised but glad it worked. The no treat thing is probably the best bet. I like that.
I wrote about pitfalls of training recently, too.
I think sometimes it has to end on a not positive note, but if it is possible, we try to change it to something positive.
Thanks for sharing your experience.
I’ve done something similar with Jack and he learns real quick what the proper behavior is!
From time to time I’m sure we all have to end on a less than positive note. There’s times after Laika’s taken off or done something bad before we were done with a walk or before we actually got started on fetch, etc. On those days it just ends before any of the fun begins.
I hadn’t noticed it as much til this year but there must be something magical about the smells left in the snow.. because Laika is spending so much time digging her nose around the yard lately. Who knows?
I only give a command once because I want the pups to listen the first time I say something and not whenever they feel like it – they DO know that’s the way it’s done in our pack, which is why I remove whatever it was they would have received for obeying the command.
That can be Buzz’s all-time favorite chuck-it ball, Missy’s favorite treats, or myself. Since dogs are super social creatures, not getting the chest (Missy) or ear rub (Buzz) is one form of punishment.
I can do this! I think that’s what my issue is; I end up rewarded delayed good behavior and I need to stop doing that. Already, there are times when my dogs wait for me to say their names three times (literally three times) before doing something. Since I have four dogs, they learn from each other and it’s aggravating.
Thank you for finishing up this post.
Interesting post, especially since I sat in on a lecture from a PhD behaviorist who had come to the zoo to help us evaluate training and specific behaviors. She talked about how punishment and consequences are actually necessary on occasion. I wish you could have been there because she basically said to do what you are discussing here. Well done.
I don’t always end on a positive either. Sometimes they are sniffing and I can them and they don’t return and I don’t treat them. I will say, “You didn’t do what I asked, so you get no treat.” Of course, I’m not perfect so sometimes I forget the rules myself, but mostly I remember and they don’t get treated.
I’m glad you found something that works for you.
Um, well obviously that should say I call them. I don’t can my dogs. 😉
I give Ducky two chances to come when I call her. If she ignores me the second time, I grab her leash and go get her. I don’t get angry about it; I just clip her leash to her collar and walk her back to the porch. I can’t give her many treats because of her IBD, so when she’s good she gets lots of praise. (Shadow normally comes right away, but when she doesn’t, I just go get her and she walks back to the porch with me.)
It is called, let us try to outsmart the humans! Good strategy, especially with a dog who knows!
I think it’s pretty much a given that anyone owned by pets have had some days where training didn’t go so hot. I too have wrote a post on ending training on positive notes, but lets face it, we are human, and things don’t always go the way we expect. I think you handled that perfectly!
ღ husky hugz ღ frum our pack at Love is being owned by a husky!
I’m kind of at a loss of what to do sometimes when Luke simply won’t listen to me. He really is great most of the time, but the one thing he won’t listen to is when I tell him to “leave it” when he is eating poop out in the yard. I tell him no as well, but he most of the time just grabs a piece of poop and runs away with it!
Positive training works when the reward is more important than whatever else has their attention, but if they have more important things on their mind, forget it. Sometimes a firm hand is necessary because they will test you.
A certain little Brown Dog has decided that she must RULE the neighborhood sounds from inside her fenced yard….hence…charging out and running full speed and barking — and NOT coming until she hears Homicide in my voice. Will switch over pronto…. and that bright bulb will “get it” ,, tho’ I foresee frequent ‘reinforcements’ — never have used E’collar, but perhaps it’s better than throwing rocks [joke — no rocks] However, she has to get toned down on this Boss of the World biz….Macha will still kick her butt, if challenged or pushed too hard in Row-row-row-row srestling.